How do we educate linesman in Arlington what offside is

The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if the ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team. She was all alone and put it in.

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

Shot rebounds off post or goalis toward Player B, who is now involved in active
play. Offside Violation should be called!
IMAGE 10: www.heatunited.com/pdfs/Offside_ParentsGuideTo.pdf
Need one of these for many of the refs (and maybe some glasses), even though they can just say we saw it differently then the parents claim. I would not want that job in any league. I am a big fan of documenting these issues in a nice email. Turely a bummer, all you can do is report it and hopefully it will help them to train better...bad calls happen to us all every season.[img][/img]

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

That sounds like the right call to me. It doesnt matter if the attacker is in an offside position before the keeper makes the save, as soon as the keeper makes the save and is the last to touch the ball any previous offside position is negated. So, if your situation is correct, a long shot in the air played to the keeper who saves it and the rebound is put in by a forward who was in an offside position before the keeper touched it - the correct call is goal, no offside. Sounds like maybe it is the parents in Arlington that need to learn offside, learn that it is singular and not called offsides, and also not to end a sentence with a preposition.

Blank77 wrote:

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

That sounds like the right call to me. It doesnt matter if the attacker is in an offside position before the keeper makes the save, as soon as the keeper makes the save and is the last to touch the ball any previous offside position is negated. So, if your situation is correct, a long shot in the air played to the keeper who saves it and the rebound is put in by a forward who was in an offside position before the keeper touched it - the correct call is goal, no offside. Sounds like maybe it is the parents in Arlington that need to learn offside, learn that it is singular and not called offsides, and also not to end a sentence with a preposition.

OP said ball was played to a player. I took that to mean it was passed to her. If that's the case, that would be offside, and offsides.

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

The offside rule is probably THE TOUGHEST thing to explain to parents and, yes some ARs get it wrong, just like they do in the EPL, etc.

Firstly, there are quite a number of occasions where the keeper is considered the last defender. One obvious one is if a keeper is standing in front when a goal kick is taken by another teammate. Hope you can visualize that.

I can't really understand your grammar, but what you may be describing could be a case where a defender is taught to run to the goal line inside the box when the keeper comes out just in case the save isn't made.

I don't know because I was not there, nor had the AR's view. I can tell you that the offside rule, like the advantage rule, has gone through a few tweaks over the years. Now, "involved in active play" is much more lenient than it was a couple of years ago.

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

The keeper IS usually the last defender.

What's your point?

The ball being in the air or not has no bearing on an offside call.

Explan the situation a little better. You have not given enough info.

How did the ball get to the player behind the keeper? Played by a teammate? Rebound off the post?

02Dad wrote:

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

The keeper IS usually the last defender.

What's your point?

The ball being in the air or not has no bearing on an offside call.

Explan the situation a little better. You have not given enough info.

How did the ball get to the player behind the keeper? Played by a teammate? Rebound off the post?

LOL! Good point! I didn't even catch that. I just assumed the poster meant "second to the last defender".

GGoat wrote:The Linesman told us today that the keeper is the last defender and if he ball is in the air they are not offsides. The keeper came out and stopped the first shot the ball bouncd around and was played to a player that was behind the keeper and the entire team and she was all alone and put it in.

I cna't mkae hades or tilas out of tihs dsritpoecin of the enevt. OP is porlbbay worng.

The bad offside calls are all over..not just in Arlington.

Sorry to all the grammer experts. Posted from a phone.
Here is what happened .
It was a break away the keeper came out and stopped the shot just inside the 18 the other offensive player kept going to the goal.
There was no defenders behind the keeper.
The ball bounced around where the keeper defenders and other offensive players where.
The ball was then passed to the offensive player that had ran past everyone.
Where she put it in the goal and was standing all alone.
It was said she was so far off she was behind the team and the keeper.
The linesman said the keeper is the last defender and the ball was in the air which made no sense to anyone so we dropped it and went on with the game.
He never made a offside call in the half. In the first half the other linesman made about 5 calls because the team lived offside most of the game.
He really looked lost. I believe he thought as long as the foward is in front of the keeper when the ball is in the air it is not offsides and it doesnt matter if the foward goes behind the rest of the team and recieves the ball. That would explain why he never made the call during the game. He never made a offside call for either team.
I hope this explains it sorry to all the english teachers out there. I posted this quick on my stupid phone I hate the auto correct.

Making no other assumptions to your description, the offensive player was offside and the referee got it utterly wrong.

I believe that this happened.

Maybe at U13 and U14, the refs are better, because I have video of every game we play, and it is very rare that an offside call (made or not made) is wrong. No, I'm not a ref and I'm not related to one.

Ya hope it gets better we are younger and play offside trap. This is on of the worst example ive seen. So back to the question should we video the games and turn them in.We had this kid before the game was 4-4 both teams scored all 8 goals when they had him when they where on offense. Another game another kid was talking the whole game to the kid on the field behind him and missed the calls. I think it may be better to not push up your defense because if you have a bad ar you are going to get beat. Or push up one half and stay back when you have one that doesnt understand. These kids are 14 to 17 years old and you can see all the confusion just on this short blog so I can see how they could get confused and rather than take back a goal just dont do anything. I aso believe they are told not to call it unless they are 100% sure.
At our age it probable the age Arlington uses to train their refs and Ars but if no one from ASA is watching them how will they ever know they are doing it wrong.

The way to educate him is to have the manager report the problem if the coach agrees there was a problem. The CR probably already addressed it if there was a problem. If the coach does not agree then it was probably a case of parents near half field calling a goal area offsides on a scrum around the goal. If not give the new guy a chance to learn the game or you can scream at him and then deal with the next new guy who shows up to make his $15. Bad calls are part of the game at any level.

It was a break away the keeper came out and stopped the shot just inside the 18 the other offensive player kept going to the goal.
There was no defenders behind the keeper.

Question: Did the keeper stop the ball and it bounced back to the offensive player? If so, the goal is good as a ball played by the other team to a player cannot be offside.

Ya ur so right 2 cents. I know we have filed things with ASA before but it never goes anywhere. I dont think they are paid enough. If no one is out watching them how will they ever get better and it doesnt do any good to yell at them as a matter a fact thats just stupid. I think the truth of the matter is many of the soccer Ass. dont care. They can pay a kid next to nothing and give them a weekend class on how to do it and if anyone complains its just to bad. At min they could have the coaches or managers grade the refs and ARs and over a few weeks they could see where the kids are falling behind and give a bonus to the kids that are doing a good job. This would teach them if they are making mistakes and motivate them to do a good job

It bounced around between a few players. Im not sure if who it hit last it seemed like it took a while to get to her. This why there are so many different opinions on this that a weekend training session and set them loose with no follow up or supervision isnt fair to the players or the Ars

GGoat wrote:Ya ur so right 2 cents. I know we have filed things with ASA before but it never goes anywhere. I dont think they are paid enough. If no one is out watching them how will they ever get better and it doesnt do any good to yell at them as a matter a fact thats just stupid. I think the truth of the matter is many of the soccer Ass. dont care. They can pay a kid next to nothing and give them a weekend class on how to do it and if anyone complains its just to bad. At min they could have the coaches or managers grade the refs and ARs and over a few weeks they could see where the kids are falling behind and give a bonus to the kids that are doing a good job. This would teach them if they are making mistakes and motivate them to do a good job

That part is not at all true. First off all refs must go thru a certification course that is 16 hours long. Usually 4 classroom hours Friday, 8 classroom hours Saturday and a 4 hour field session on Sunday. They pay $50 for this weekend of fun. Then they must purchase uniforms and equipment. Second the local associations do care. Believe it or not people are not lining up for the chance to run up and down a field and be yelled at for 4 or 5 hours every Saturday. They use what they have and do access refs.

Arlington now has a new referee assignor this year, and he is very serious about correcting the referee problems of the past. It is up to your coach to fill out the "referee evaluation form" and send it in to ASA so they can address the problem.... and I actually have faith that this new guy will look at these evaluations and work to correct any real issues. If this linesman is in need of more training and evaluation then a "paper trail" or forms is the way to make it happen. The form MUST come only from the coach.. they do not want parents all sending in their versions of things (understandably)

Wow thats even worse than I thought 2 cents. ASA and others barely pay them anything and make them pay for their uniforms and classes that cant be true 2 cents. Thats terrible. I cant believe they get anyone to do it . Thats why they use young kids because it is hard for them to work anywhere else esp if your under 16

Just an Observer wrote:It was a break away the keeper came out and stopped the shot just inside the 18 the other offensive player kept going to the goal.
There was no defenders behind the keeper.

Question: Did the keeper stop the ball and it bounced back to the offensive player? If so, the goal is good as a ball played by the other team to a player cannot be offside.

I've seen this stated multiple times in this thread and surprised no one has corrected it yet. If the ball rebounds off a keeper to a player previously in an offside position, offside must be called under LOTG because said player was "gaining an advantage" by being closer to goal than 2nd to last defender. Nothing is reset from a deflection or rebound off a keeper, goalpost, or anything else. The only way the scenario the OP described could have been a legit goal would be if the defending team controlled and played the ball to the attacker. A keeper blocking a shot doesn't count. Whiffs and miskicks on clearances don't count either.

4-4-2-Diamond wrote:I've seen this stated multiple times in this thread and surprised no one has corrected it yet. If the ball rebounds off a keeper to a player previously in an offside position, offside must be called under LOTG because said player was "gaining an advantage" by being closer to goal than 2nd to last defender. Nothing is reset from a deflection or rebound off a keeper, goalpost, or anything else. The only way the scenario the OP described could have been a legit goal would be if the defending team controlled and played the ball to the attacker. A keeper blocking a shot doesn't count. Whiffs and miskicks on clearances don't count either.

You beat me to it.. I meant to post on this issue this morning. Well said.

GGoat wrote:Sorry to all the grammer experts. Posted from a phone.
Here is what happened .
It was a break away the keeper came out and stopped the shot just inside the 18 the other offensive player kept going to the goal.
There was no defenders behind the keeper.
The ball bounced around where the keeper defenders and other offensive players where.
The ball was then passed to the offensive player that had ran past everyone.
Where she put it in the goal and was standing all alone.
It was said she was so far off she was behind the team and the keeper.
The linesman said the keeper is the last defender and the ball was in the air which made no sense to anyone so we dropped it and went on with the game.
He never made a offside call in the half. In the first half the other linesman made about 5 calls because the team lived offside most of the game.
He really looked lost. I believe he thought as long as the foward is in front of the keeper when the ball is in the air it is not offsides and it doesnt matter if the foward goes behind the rest of the team and recieves the ball. That would explain why he never made the call during the game. He never made a offside call for either team.
I hope this explains it sorry to all the english teachers out there. I posted this quick on my stupid phone I hate the auto correct.

While we're correcting things, I suspect what the AR was trying to say regarding the "ball in the air" bit is that if the forward were not in a an offside position at the moment the ball was struck, but then sprinted beyond the second-to-last defender once the ball was in flight, it is not an offside violation. A player can only be in an offside position if all four of the following are true:

a) offside player is ahead of the ball and
b) ahead of the center field stripe and
c) ahead of the second-to-last defender

at the moment the ball is played to them.

Actually, the offside player doesn't have to have the ball played to them per se, it can be played to another player in the area who may not be offside, but if the offside player is close enough to the play or the keeper, the officials might decide his team gained a competitive advantage from his being in that position and call the foul.

But from your description, it sounds like the "in the air" bit was irrelevant to the situation. Your description sounds like a clear-cut offside infraction UNLESS THE BALL WAS PURPOSELY PLAYED BACK TO THE FORWARD BY A MEMBER OF THE OTHER TEAM (a failed attempt to clear through the back of the pitch, perhaps?).

Again everbody back to the question how do we educate refs and Ars according to 2cents they get 4 hours of training on a friday 8 hrs class room on a saturday and 4 hours of game time on sunday which they have to pay for and they have to buy their own uniforms all to make 16 bucks a game.Then sent out to ref games. How many games can they ref on saturday and sunday. Is their no training during the year. No wonder Arlington and others cant say anything to there refs an Ars about bad calls. They are lucky to have the ones they have and cant afford to loose any of them. What happens to all the money we give them. Cant they afford a monthy training and pay them to attend and offer bonuses to refs an ars that get high scores on evaluations by coaches.

GGoat wrote:Again everbody back to the question how do we educate refs and Ars according to 2cents they get 4 hours of training on a friday 8 hrs class room on a saturday and 4 hours of game time on sunday which they have to pay for and they have to buy their own uniforms all to make 16 bucks a game.Then sent out to ref games. How many games can they ref on saturday and sunday. Is their no training during the year. No wonder Arlington and others cant say anything to there refs an Ars about bad calls. They are lucky to have the ones they have and cant afford to loose any of them. What happens to all the money we give them. Cant they afford a monthy training and pay them to attend and offer bonuses to refs an ars that get high scores on evaluations by coaches.

That is completely ludicrous.

Coaches should have ZERO say on how good a referee performs. Zero. It has no place in the game.