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Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

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Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Type 1 left-footer on 30/11/11, 07:51 am

Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?


Last edited by Type 1 left-footer on 30/01/12, 06:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : questions answered)
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by bigtex75081 on 30/11/11, 08:28 am

On the ECNL Jr. webpage, http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/jr_ecnl/index_E.html, nothing has been posted yet.
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Gunners on 30/11/11, 08:29 am

I believe it's just a name that some clubs are choosing to give to their younger teams. Afaik it holds no significance beyond that...yet.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Guest on 30/11/11, 09:04 am

Type 1 left-footer wrote:Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.
I noticed that FC Dallas has both their U13 and U13 red rosters listed on the ECNL website. It looks like quite a few players are rostered to both teams. Why two teams then if you don't have enough for two? Do you get double exposure (I had to joke a little on that one)?

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?

JR ECNL Competition
7.1 Age Groups. JR ECNL Competition consists of games between ECNL Clubs at the
Under-13 and Under-14 girls age groups.
7.2 Sanctioning and Passes. All players in JR ECNL Competition must be carded with a
US Club Pass, unless such player is also on an ECNL Roster, in which case an ECNL
Permanent Pass or ECNL Temporary Pass will be accepted.
7.3 Optional Participation. It is not mandatory for ECNL Clubs to participate in any JR
ECNL Competition in 2010-2011.
7.4 Roster Rules. The roster rules set forth in Rule 2 above do not apply to players
participating in JR ECNL Competition. Players participating in JR ECNL Competition
may be from any youth soccer club, so long as they are on the ECNL Club’s US Club
Roster, with a US Club Pass, during the JR ECNL Competition.
7.5 Competition Format. JR ECNL Competitions may take a variety of formats, provided
such formats are pre-approved by the ECNL Board of Directors in writing.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/docs/resource_center/ECNLRules2010-11.pdf

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by fatherofoneplayer on 30/11/11, 09:59 am

Type 1 left-footer wrote:Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.
I noticed that FC Dallas has both their U13 and U13 red rosters listed on the ECNL website. It looks like quite a few players are rostered to both teams. Why two teams then if you don't have enough for two? Do you get double exposure (I had to joke a little on that one)?

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?

Those two teams are listed as US Club teams and not ECNL teams.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/teams/club/26969896.html

As far as the guidelines are concerned, who knows how or why FC Dallas does things. Political? Probably so.

Word on the street is that ECNL will go to U13 next year also. Also heard that ECNL will require two teams per club next year. Money grab?
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by coachr on 30/11/11, 10:12 am

#2420 wrote:
Type 1 left-footer wrote:Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.
I noticed that FC Dallas has both their U13 and U13 red rosters listed on the ECNL website. It looks like quite a few players are rostered to both teams. Why two teams then if you don't have enough for two? Do you get double exposure (I had to joke a little on that one)?

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?

JR ECNL Competition
7.1 Age Groups. JR ECNL Competition consists of games between ECNL Clubs at the
Under-13 and Under-14 girls age groups.
7.2 Sanctioning and Passes. All players in JR ECNL Competition must be carded with a
US Club Pass, unless such player is also on an ECNL Roster, in which case an ECNL
Permanent Pass or ECNL Temporary Pass will be accepted.
7.3 Optional Participation. It is not mandatory for ECNL Clubs to participate in any JR
ECNL Competition in 2010-2011.
7.4 Roster Rules. The roster rules set forth in Rule 2 above do not apply to players
participating in JR ECNL Competition. Players participating in JR ECNL Competition
may be from any youth soccer club, so long as they are on the ECNL Club’s US Club
Roster, with a US Club Pass, during the JR ECNL Competition.
7.5 Competition Format. JR ECNL Competitions may take a variety of formats, provided
such formats are pre-approved by the ECNL Board of Directors in writing.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/docs/resource_center/ECNLRules2010-11.pdf
too many rules. This is more about business than kids playing soccer.
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by toro on 30/11/11, 10:19 am

While the point of ECNL seems unclear, the point of ECNL Jr. is clear. To make parents...not kids...parents...feel excluded from something so they will want to be a part of it.

Just like a red velvet rope.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Type 1 left-footer on 30/11/11, 11:05 am

#2420 wrote:
Type 1 left-footer wrote:Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.
I noticed that FC Dallas has both their U13 and U13 red rosters listed on the ECNL website. It looks like quite a few players are rostered to both teams. Why two teams then if you don't have enough for two? Do you get double exposure (I had to joke a little on that one)?

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?

JR ECNL Competition
7.1 Age Groups. JR ECNL Competition consists of games between ECNL Clubs at the
Under-13 and Under-14 girls age groups.
7.2 Sanctioning and Passes. All players in JR ECNL Competition must be carded with a
US Club Pass, unless such player is also on an ECNL Roster, in which case an ECNL
Permanent Pass or ECNL Temporary Pass will be accepted.
7.3 Optional Participation. It is not mandatory for ECNL Clubs to participate in any JR
ECNL Competition in 2010-2011.
7.4 Roster Rules. The roster rules set forth in Rule 2 above do not apply to players
participating in JR ECNL Competition. Players participating in JR ECNL Competition
may be from any youth soccer club, so long as they are on the ECNL Club’s US Club
Roster, with a US Club Pass, during the JR ECNL Competition.
7.5 Competition Format. JR ECNL Competitions may take a variety of formats, provided
such formats are pre-approved by the ECNL Board of Directors in writing.

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/docs/resource_center/ECNLRules2010-11.pdf

So are the players(the teams here playing in LH) registered with USYS?
So could a player with one club play with another club for an a US Soccer sanctioned event?
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Grifter on 30/11/11, 11:10 am

There is a certain soccer club in the dallas area that has all this figured out and I'm willing to bet most people know who that is.... Go ECNL Jr and Dinosauer Jr.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by futbollove on 30/11/11, 03:50 pm

Type 1 left-footer wrote:Please someone explain the ECNL jr teams to me.
I noticed that FC Dallas has both their U13 and U13 red rosters listed on the ECNL website. It looks like quite a few players are rostered to both teams. Why two teams then if you don't have enough for two? Do you get double exposure (I had to joke a little on that one)?

What are the guidelines regarding building these Jr. teams? Special invitation? Recruited? Volunteers? Players that are interested in going ECNL next year? Or political?

I would doubt that it is political. With ECNL being such a badge of honor for these clubs, one would suspect that the clubs would want the best players that want to play, on their ECNL(jr) rosters.
If you are interested in ECNL, my suggestion would be to ask your coach about it.
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by whatsup on 30/01/12, 11:36 am

For a couple of clubs, ECNL Jr. means driving to Austin this weekend to play Dallas area academy teams. WTH?!?!

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Type 1 left-footer on 30/01/12, 12:30 pm

whatsup wrote:For a couple of clubs, ECNL Jr. means driving to Austin this weekend to play Dallas area academy teams. WTH?!?!

Have fun!! Very Happy
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by fourfourtwo on 30/01/12, 01:07 pm

whatsup wrote:For a couple of clubs, ECNL Jr. means driving to Austin this weekend to play Dallas area academy teams. WTH?!?!

Would love to know how they managed to sell parents on that one. Maybe the club is paying parent expenses for this trip as a sunk marketing cost. Win-win for the 02s though.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Guest on 30/01/12, 05:08 pm

ECNL Jr's does not exsist! It another way for clubs to sell the idea that if you are not playing at what is percieved as the top level then you must move to their club. It works with those parents with big ego's and deep pockets.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by 1more_dd_dad on 30/01/12, 05:34 pm

My DD plays for what would be considered an "ECNL Jr" program and none of the parents on our sideline pump their chest and feed their ego's as being on a mighty "ECNL Jr" roster and I don't really hear parents from the others pumping it up either. What I do find comical are all the "soccer people" that get on this forum and trash the US soccer system and it's development and then trash a system by all accounts affords teams to train more and play "better competetion" that they may not otherwise play; and we have coaches from non-ECNL clubs, (some of which are trying to join as fast as they can), talking about marketing ploys and gimmicks trying their best to discount the system. Sure in Dallas/San Diego/Denver/New York and other a few other major population centers it might not make a ton of sense but it does for all of the smaller market teams across th US. I guess I make the mistake of looking at the big picture for soccer as a whole and not just our DFW area. I could be wrong and drinking the cool-aide but I don't think so...
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by futbollove on 30/01/12, 05:47 pm

totalsoccer wrote:ECNL Jr's does not exsist! It another way for clubs to sell the idea that if you are not playing at what is percieved as the top level then you must move to their club. It works with those parents with big ego's and deep pockets.

The same way Academy doesn't exist, right?
Aren't clubs invited to ECNL based on reputation and past performance of the entire club? So it's not really perception that these clubs are top level is it? Are there clubs/coaches that are top-level that aren't part of ECNL? Sure there are. But that doesn't take away from the fact that most of the ECNL clubs consistently play at a "top level".
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by fourfourtwo on 30/01/12, 11:00 pm

1more_dd_dad wrote:My DD plays for what would be considered an "ECNL Jr" program and none of the parents on our sideline pump their chest and feed their ego's as being on a mighty "ECNL Jr" roster and I don't really hear parents from the others pumping it up either. What I do find comical are all the "soccer people" that get on this forum and trash the US soccer system and it's development and then trash a system by all accounts affords teams to train more and play "better competetion" that they may not otherwise play; and we have coaches from non-ECNL clubs, (some of which are trying to join as fast as they can), talking about marketing ploys and gimmicks trying their best to discount the system. Sure in Dallas/San Diego/Denver/New York and other a few other major population centers it might not make a ton of sense but it does for all of the smaller market teams across th US. I guess I make the mistake of looking at the big picture for soccer as a whole and not just our DFW area. I could be wrong and drinking the cool-aide but I don't think so...

It's clear at this point ECNL is real. Makes sense for 14 to 16 year olds. ECNL Jr. for 10 and 11 year olds? Not so clear.

I won't say you're drinking kool-aide, but do you honestly believe you are playing "better competition" taking a trip to play lonestar teams and NTX 02s than you could've played in your own backyard?

Every team likes fun trips as bonding experiences. Who they play won't matter much - long as they have fun and get some good games in. It's the labeling of these events as "JR. ECNL" - implying they have similar legitimacy with ECNL that smacks of marketing gimmick.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by 1more_dd_dad on 31/01/12, 05:48 am

fourfourtwo wrote:
1more_dd_dad wrote:My DD plays for what would be considered an "ECNL Jr" program and none of the parents on our sideline pump their chest and feed their ego's as being on a mighty "ECNL Jr" roster and I don't really hear parents from the others pumping it up either. What I do find comical are all the "soccer people" that get on this forum and trash the US soccer system and it's development and then trash a system by all accounts affords teams to train more and play "better competetion" that they may not otherwise play; and we have coaches from non-ECNL clubs, (some of which are trying to join as fast as they can), talking about marketing ploys and gimmicks trying their best to discount the system. Sure in Dallas/San Diego/Denver/New York and other a few other major population centers it might not make a ton of sense but it does for all of the smaller market teams across th US. I guess I make the mistake of looking at the big picture for soccer as a whole and not just our DFW area. I could be wrong and drinking the cool-aide but I don't think so...

It's clear at this point ECNL is real. Makes sense for 14 to 16 year olds. ECNL Jr. for 10 and 11 year olds? Not so clear.

I won't say you're drinking kool-aide, but do you honestly believe you are playing "better competition" taking a trip to play lonestar teams and NTX 02s than you could've played in your own backyard?

Every team likes fun trips as bonding experiences. Who they play won't matter much - long as they have fun and get some good games in. It's the labeling of these events as "JR. ECNL" - implying they have similar legitimacy with ECNL that smacks of marketing gimmick.

Re-read my post. I didn't say better competition for NTX, I said for other clubs across the country that do not have the luxury of the amount or quality of teams we have in NTX. I think we are being short-sighted in looking at the program from a local perspective as opposed to a national perspective. To the point of marketing gimmicks, I'm not sure about that one as the only teams that knew these tournaments were "JR ECNL" were the "JR ECNL' Teams/clubs themselves as no club/coach was pumping it up pre-signing...
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by fourfourtwo on 31/01/12, 09:21 am

1more_dd_dad wrote:
Re-read my post. I didn't say better competition for NTX, I said for other clubs across the country that do not have the luxury of the amount or quality of teams we have in NTX. I think we are being short-sighted in looking at the program from a local perspective as opposed to a national perspective. To the point of marketing gimmicks, I'm not sure about that one as the only teams that knew these tournaments were "JR ECNL" were the "JR ECNL' Teams/clubs themselves as no club/coach was pumping it up pre-signing...

As a NTX parent I don't think it's shortsighted to make decisions based on the interests of my own DD and her environment. I'm not interested in subsidizing other areas of the country for the good of soccer. For those more altruistic parents, they might make a different choice. That's the beautiful thing about NTX - we have options.

We'll have to agree to disagree on it not being marketed. You're discounting the pitches being made to academy parents about Jr. ECNL. I first heard it when my kid was 9 years old and still a U10. There was talk about creating a spring league for 'ECNL Jr' and only including the ECNL clubs. Ultimately that league never formed but TFC started TXYSL and 2 of the top teams pulled out and played SDL instead.

Fast forward a year later. Kenshi Dave whose DD obviously plays on a ECNL Jr. team, speculated on the forum that Texas Cup ECNL JR events will affect seeding for the "real" ECNL. Kenshi's a good dude and I'm not saying the club put him up to it, but that seemed like marketing speak.

Texas Cup used to let the top teams play each other. This time in U11 they prevented a top 10 Lake highlands team from playing the top competition because they weren't the "ECNL Jr." team. Meanwhile the lonestar "ECNL Jr." played and went 0 goals for and 12 goals against in 2 games (their score against d'feeters wasn't posted). Meanwhile the D1 LH team (Solar Monte) was made to play down in "Premeir" and scored 15 goals for and 0 goals against in 3 games.

Were NTX players participating in Texas Cup helped by "ECNL Jr." at U11? Did bates and flanagan get much from blowing out lonestar's ECNL Jrs? Isn't it clear they would've gotten better competition from Solar Monte?

It's not so much one tournament - the issue is the trend. The trend of reducing ntx competition, for the sake of marketing, at younger and younger ages, is BAD for NTX soccer IMO.

Now a few months later you have D1 select teams traveling to play NTX academy teams. That only makes sense for the sake of marketing ECNL Jr. as a benefit to academy parents who are making up their minds about select.

I can't say what coaches are doing now, but I know for a fact coaches sold the ECNL line to academy parents before signing last year. And there's nothing wrong with it. If there is substance to the benefit, it's a valid point parents should consider in their decision making. If it's smoke and mirrors and your kid's spot on a given ECNL Jr. team has minimal bearing on her chances of making a "real" ECNL team 3 to 4 years from now, parents should know that too.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by 1more_dd_dad on 31/01/12, 12:19 pm

fourfourtwo wrote:
1more_dd_dad wrote:
Re-read my post. I didn't say better competition for NTX, I said for other clubs across the country that do not have the luxury of the amount or quality of teams we have in NTX. I think we are being short-sighted in looking at the program from a local perspective as opposed to a national perspective. To the point of marketing gimmicks, I'm not sure about that one as the only teams that knew these tournaments were "JR ECNL" were the "JR ECNL' Teams/clubs themselves as no club/coach was pumping it up pre-signing...

As a NTX parent I don't think it's shortsighted to make decisions based on the interests of my own DD and her environment. I'm not interested in subsidizing other areas of the country for the good of soccer. For those more altruistic parents, they might make a different choice. That's the beautiful thing about NTX - we have options.

We'll have to agree to disagree on it not being marketed. You're discounting the pitches being made to academy parents about Jr. ECNL. I first heard it when my kid was 9 years old and still a U10. There was talk about creating a spring league for 'ECNL Jr' and only including the ECNL clubs. Ultimately that league never formed but TFC started TXYSL and 2 of the top teams pulled out and played SDL instead.

Fast forward a year later. Kenshi Dave whose DD obviously plays on a ECNL Jr. team, speculated on the forum that Texas Cup ECNL JR events will affect seeding for the "real" ECNL. Kenshi's a good dude and I'm not saying the club put him up to it, but that seemed like marketing speak.

Texas Cup used to let the top teams play each other. This time in U11 they prevented a top 10 Lake highlands team from playing the top competition because they weren't the "ECNL Jr." team. Meanwhile the lonestar "ECNL Jr." played and went 0 goals for and 12 goals against in 2 games (their score against d'feeters wasn't posted). Meanwhile the D1 LH team (Solar Monte) was made to play down in "Premeir" and scored 15 goals for and 0 goals against in 3 games.

Were NTX players participating in Texas Cup helped by "ECNL Jr." at U11? Did bates and flanagan get much from blowing out lonestar's ECNL Jrs? Isn't it clear they would've gotten better competition from Solar Monte?

It's not so much one tournament - the issue is the trend. The trend of reducing ntx competition, for the sake of marketing, at younger and younger ages, is BAD for NTX soccer IMO.

Now a few months later you have D1 select teams traveling to play NTX academy teams. That only makes sense for the sake of marketing ECNL Jr. as a benefit to academy parents who are making up their minds about select.

I can't say what coaches are doing now, but I know for a fact coaches sold the ECNL line to academy parents before signing last year. And there's nothing wrong with it. If there is substance to the benefit, it's a valid point parents should consider in their decision making. If it's smoke and mirrors and your kid's spot on a given ECNL Jr. team has minimal bearing on her chances of making a "real" ECNL team 3 to 4 years from now, parents should know that too.

I agree with a lot of what you say but I just don't think its that big of a factor at U11/12 and people will wait. If there were coaches that used ECNL as a recruiting tool for U11 girls, that is sill, about as silly as trying to use it against those clubs... As far as the effect on NTX, maybe it does water down the pool of top competition at the older age groups, but then again not sure the ECNL cares about local markets and looks big picture right or wrong.
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by LHD on 31/01/12, 02:33 pm

whatsup wrote:For a couple of clubs, ECNL Jr. means driving to Austin this weekend to play Dallas area academy teams. WTH?!?!

It depends on your perspective. My daughter and her teammates seem very excited about going to Austin. The talk has been primarily about their roommates for the weekend and how much fun they are going to have. I don't think the girls really care about who they might end up playing in Austin or how the tournament is labeled.

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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by Jklivin on 31/01/12, 03:03 pm

LHD wrote:
whatsup wrote:For a couple of clubs, ECNL Jr. means driving to Austin this weekend to play Dallas area academy teams. WTH?!?!

It depends on your perspective. My daughter and her teammates seem very excited about going to Austin. The talk has been primarily about their roommates for the weekend and how much fun they are going to have. I don't think the girls really care about who they might end up playing in Austin or how the tournament is labeled.

It's all about being with their friends. Smile
Friends are expensive these days $2,500 and up.
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Amused

Post by beastmom on 01/02/12, 06:05 pm

Lots of spear lobbing . . .
and time on our hands. . . .
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by setplay on 02/02/12, 12:52 am

has anyone from a ecnl club's other team been contacted to join their "premier teams" for an event like this. i think an event like this would be cool if you saw for example the best kids from solar bates, monte, and guim take the best from sting and fcd and so on. but from what i see so far just looks like more seperation from haves to have nots.
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Re: Explain ECNL Jr. to me PLEASE

Post by wittymgr on 02/02/12, 11:15 am

setplay wrote:has anyone from a ecnl club's other team been contacted to join their "premier teams" for an event like this. i think an event like this would be cool if you saw for example the best kids from solar bates, monte, and guim take the best from sting and fcd and so on. but from what i see so far just looks like more seperation from haves to have nots.
At the U-13 level this is the case with FC Dallas. Can't speak for the other age groups, but nearly all the Lake Highlands level teams are represented in the two '99 teams traveling to Austin this weekend.
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