Latest topics
Early Christmas for PowerKick?Yesterday at 10:40 pmNoSpinZone
Dallas Rush 10G Elite Yesterday at 07:23 pmApodaca64
05 Girl Looking to Guest Play - Have Coach's BlessingYesterday at 02:59 pmSoccerDad75070
Christmas special on keeper glovesYesterday at 10:31 amunitedgoalkeepingusa
Christmas special on keeper glovesYesterday at 10:30 amunitedgoalkeepingusa
Solar 09G - Austin (Open Practices)Yesterday at 08:51 amGloryDays
Game of the WeekYesterday at 06:23 amBENDMEOVER
U12 DA cost?Yesterday at 05:52 amBENDMEOVER
2011 7v7 Friendlies10/12/18, 11:04 pmSolar11G Wheatley
New Solar 10G Team10/12/18, 10:41 pmFMSolar
Brand New Cleats- Nike kangaroo leather10/12/18, 09:45 pmkateybug000
Rachel Holden Back from Sweden and Wanting 10's!10/12/18, 08:32 pmNTX Celtic FC
HPSA Scots - 07 Girls Spots Available 10/12/18, 08:07 pmForReal
03 Classic League D110/12/18, 07:59 pmdavito
NTX Santos Open Training10/12/18, 06:36 pmNTX_Santos
06 Boys Sports Available - Futsal & Spring Season10/12/18, 05:14 pmCoach Juan
06 Boys Sports Available 10/12/18, 05:06 pmCoach Juan
9v9 AND 7v7 OPTION FOR U10 AGE GROUP - TEXAS WINTER CLASSIC10/12/18, 03:52 pmmusaisaya
2016 GERMANY EXPENSE PAID TRIP ITINERARY - REGISTER NOW10/12/18, 03:49 pmmusaisaya
Looking to add 2 Players10/12/18, 12:25 pmFeet06
TOP TEN 08’ BOYS TEAMS10/12/18, 11:17 am1a2b3c
NTX Santos - 2010B10/12/18, 11:01 amNTX_Santos
FC Dallas West - Looking for 12s and 13s for Spring 10/12/18, 10:52 amacademysoccerkeller
Solar 11 Weigelt Looking for Players 10/12/18, 10:13 amSolar11/12girls
Friendly 12/15 or 12/1610/12/18, 09:50 amskills
Log in

I forgot my password

Be An Athletic Supporter!
Donate and get this nifty tag!

Statistics
We have 12769 registered users
The newest registered user is Vanwist

Our users have posted a total of 184101 messages in 24523 subjects

Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 12:00 pm

Seems like the allure of State Cup, PLD, and probably Vegas Cup and Surf Cup were sacrificed for what?
DA
ECNL
Champions
Composite (is that the same as Champions?)
LHGCL
JDL

That's a lot of dog on leagues.

DA obviously isn't helping on the boys side when we cant even qualify for WC...
So remind me again why it was necessary for the girls?

Oh well...its a done deal now but I still by right can complain.

and im not hating on DA...just wondering was it necessary?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by HomeStretch on 11/10/17, 12:20 pm

I agree the old format was not ideal but it at least groomed competitors. The correlation of full team results to youth programs is unjustified IMO. How many DA players were on the field in mens WC qualifying? How many ECNL players were on field in womens last world cup win?

Judge ecnl by how well YOUTH national teams have done recently against the world. What does their style of play look like on teams stocked with ECNL talent? Men's DA has made some difference ...watch the u17s playing now and they don't play anything like the full men's team [most of them dont anyway].  They didn't make it out of group 2 years ago but they played some of the best kids in the world with several kids out of last u17WC already in first teams in europe.

The 2016 u17 GYNT OTOH was touted by top drawer as an ecnl juggernaut that would supposedly showcase how ecnl had changed the youth....they lost to Ghana and didn't make it out of bracket.....more importantly...style of play looked like ur typical Sting LH team of old.

DA pay for play and still high cost with tons of travel may not be the answer, but let's stop pretending any evidence Sting style ECNL soccer was taking anyone in the right direction either.

HomeStretch
TxSoccer Postmaster
TxSoccer Postmaster

Posts : 120
Points : 943
Join date : 2016-09-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 12:33 pm

well put...

Whats done is done and may as well make the best of it.

I was just wondering...
I have an '04 and as my '10 starts her journey it just seems different.

Maybe because Im "seasoned" lol

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 12:44 pm

JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:Seems like the allure of State Cup, PLD, and probably Vegas Cup and Surf Cup were sacrificed for what?
DA
ECNL
Champions
Composite (is that the same as Champions?)
LHG
JDL

That's a lot of dog on leagues.

DA obviously isn't helping on the boys side when we cant even qualify for WC...
So remind me again why it was necessary for the girls?

Oh well...its a done deal now but I still by right can complain.

and im not hating on DA...just wondering was it necessary?

State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

ECNL 'Composite' and JDL teams are those that primarily make up the TX 'Champions' league.  All the league really does is provide an opportunity for NTX to compete against STX and OK.  

Bottom line ...

If your kid participates in the USSDA/ECNL, or has aspirations to, the poor performance in WC qualifying by our USMNT has no bearing in any way on your child, although many on here and on social media have had 'knee jerk' reactions to it.  Much of the current (about to be previous) roster and culture of the USMNT itself weren't part of the USSDA -- look for the USSF to 'clean house' very shortly.  And you can look to the recent successes of some of the YNTs for a more accurate picture of the success of the USSDA.

Regarding the recent failures of the USWNT ... It's just that the rest of the world's little girls are starting to play the game.  Traditional world powers France, Germany, and England are bound to catch up, and this realistically has little to do with the ECNL has done, nor how the USSDA will do in developing our our kids.

Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 01:20 pm

I knew the DA Ambassador would answer....had you in mind when I posted. Damn shame what yall did to them Texans.


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by HomeStretch on 11/10/17, 02:00 pm

BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO

HomeStretch
TxSoccer Postmaster
TxSoccer Postmaster

Posts : 120
Points : 943
Join date : 2016-09-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Gunners on 11/10/17, 02:12 pm

HomeStretch wrote:I agree the old format was not ideal but it at least groomed competitors. The correlation of full team results to youth programs is unjustified IMO. How many DA players were on the field in mens WC qualifying? How many ECNL players were on field in womens last world cup win?

Judge ecnl by how well YOUTH national teams have done recently against the world. What does their style of play look like on teams stocked with ECNL talent? Men's DA has made some difference ...watch the u17s playing now and they don't play anything like the full men's team [most of them dont anyway].  They didn't make it out of group 2 years ago but they played some of the best kids in the world with several kids out of last u17WC already in first teams in europe.

The 2016 u17 GYNT  OTOH was touted by top drawer as an ecnl juggernaut that would supposedly showcase how ecnl had changed the youth....they lost to Ghana and didn't make it out of bracket.....more importantly...style of play looked like ur typical Sting LH team of old.

DA pay for play and still high cost with tons of travel may not be the answer, but let's stop pretending any evidence Sting style ECNL soccer was taking anyone in the right direction either.

Axe to grind much?

Also, history doesn't support this comment at all.  Plenty of current college soccer rosters littered with former Sting kids.

__________________________________________________
I got 99 problems but the pitch ain't one
avatar
Gunners
TxSoccer Addict
TxSoccer Addict

Posts : 1292
Points : 4843
Join date : 2009-05-04
Location : Looking for The Situation

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Gunners on 11/10/17, 02:14 pm

DA was a money/power grab by USSF, nothing more or less.

Thankful I didn't have to deal with it's nonsense.

__________________________________________________
I got 99 problems but the pitch ain't one
avatar
Gunners
TxSoccer Addict
TxSoccer Addict

Posts : 1292
Points : 4843
Join date : 2009-05-04
Location : Looking for The Situation

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by soccerjack on 11/10/17, 02:15 pm

I don't understand how the mens team is not a reflection of DA and womens team is not a reflection of ECNL, if that's where most of the players were developed.

I agree with Mr Targaryen, there was nothing wrong with the old system, only I call it what it is....a bunch of knuckleheads that are driven by power and money and don't have a bit of business or strategic sense. Big Ern could excel in this system and Sho nuff the medicine man, would make a great spokesperson to stay on message.... about nothing.

avatar
soccerjack
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 993
Points : 2635
Join date : 2014-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by soccerjack on 11/10/17, 02:20 pm

HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO

cheers
avatar
soccerjack
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 993
Points : 2635
Join date : 2014-07-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 02:24 pm

HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.
Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now? Seems like it should garner the same results.





Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 02:31 pm

HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

No sh#t? huh ... It didn't happen immediately?!  And it was smaller when it started than it is now?  Wink

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO

Agree with much of the rest of this other than ...

Your contention that the success of ECNL had "nothing to do" with addition of more national competition and exposure.

And that parents of kids in DA this year 'bought exposure'.  how have the USSDA not addressed costs in your mind?  The vast majority of Boy's programs are free as are a growing number of Girl's programs.  Those that aren't are substantially discounted and provide kits.

And that the "new" system is diluting the consolidation that was occurring in the "old" system.  Please explain the "natural" consolidation that was happening prior to ECNL and how it's superior to the consolidation process in place now.

Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Medicine Man on 11/10/17, 02:32 pm

It's all pay to play SoccerJack electric bill s paid. He's sleeping like a baby every night. Development was lost years ago w greed.

__________________________________________________
Pay to play isn't picky if you have cash money! There's always more spots to fill in the ponzi scheme. The layers keep expanding and the facts get skewed.

Watch "Frankie Goes To Hollywood - Relax (Laser Version)" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/rCp2h5jslKY
avatar
Medicine Man
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 936
Points : 1437
Join date : 2017-09-29
Location : Purgatory

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 02:45 pm

JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

Other than the mandated USSF curriculum & training standards, game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring, and additional training days ... nothing much different from last year.

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?

Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now?

Both have USSF B ... see above for your answer to, "what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year".


Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 02:47 pm

My neighbors daughter plays DA for the Texans...played ECNL last year.
I inquired if he observed any significant difference thus far in the game and in training.

His response....
"Same level of play in the game but as far as the training....its just more of it....so far"

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 02:48 pm

I do not have ill will toward the DA. At this point in time after talking with a great number of dads that have DDs playing in DA as well as those that will be trying out next year, I have come to the conclusion that they do not have anymore belief that it is the right way to go than anyone else. They do however believe it is where the vast majority of top players will be playing so they want to be there. You can not fault anyone for that. At least I can not.

KeeperCommander
TxSoccer Addict
TxSoccer Addict

Posts : 1649
Points : 3578
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Sidelines watching practice

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 02:49 pm

BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

Other than the mandated USSF curriculum & training standards, game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring, and additional training days ... nothing much different from last year.

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?

Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now?

Both have USSF B ... see above for your answer to, "what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year".


Damn....didnt know they had that.
Is that an FCD thing or DA thing?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Guest on 11/10/17, 02:52 pm

FCD stomped Texans 7-0 even after the coaching change...
Solar beat a Kansas team 13-0...

Those are Primetime scores...

Im sure it'll get better though as time progresses.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 03:02 pm

soccerjack wrote:I don't understand how the mens team is not a reflection of DA and womens team is not a reflection of ECNL, if that's where most of the players were developed.  

I agree with Mr Targaryen, there was nothing wrong with the old system, only I call it what it is....a bunch of knuckleheads that are driven by power and money and don't have a bit of business or strategic sense.  Big Ern could excel in this system and Sho nuff the medicine man, would make a great spokesperson to stay on message.... about nothing.


Here ya go jack -- For better hallway vision ...

"If your kid participates in the USSDA/ECNL, or has aspirations to, the poor performance in WC qualifying by our USMNT has no bearing in any way on your child, although many on here (like yourself) and on social media have had 'knee jerk' reactions to it.  Much of the current (about to be previous) roster and culture of the USMNT itself weren't part of the USSDA -- look for the USSF to 'clean house' very shortly.  And you can look to the recent successes of some of the YNTs for a more accurate picture of the success of the USSDA.

Regarding the recent failures of the USWNT ... It's just that the rest of the world's little girls are starting to play the game.  Traditional world powers France, Germany, and England are bound to catch up, and this realistically has little to do with the ECNL has done, nor how the USSDA will do in developing our our kids".


If this doesn't help with your lack of understanding jack, I just can't help ya --

Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 03:05 pm

JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

Other than the mandated USSF curriculum & training standards, game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring, and additional training days ... nothing much different from last year.

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?

Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now?

Both have USSF B ... see above for your answer to, "what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year".


Damn....didnt know they had that.
Is that an FCD thing or DA thing?

As far as I know it's a DA thing JST --

Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 03:07 pm

BigErn wrote:
soccerjack wrote:I don't understand how the mens team is not a reflection of DA and womens team is not a reflection of ECNL, if that's where most of the players were developed.  

I agree with Mr Targaryen, there was nothing wrong with the old system, only I call it what it is....a bunch of knuckleheads that are driven by power and money and don't have a bit of business or strategic sense.  Big Ern could excel in this system and Sho nuff the medicine man, would make a great spokesperson to stay on message.... about nothing.


Here ya go jack -- For better hallway vision ...

"If your kid participates in the USSDA/ECNL, or has aspirations to, the poor performance in WC qualifying by our USMNT has no bearing in any way on your child, although many on here (like yourself) and on social media have had 'knee jerk' reactions to it.  Much of the current (about to be previous) roster and culture of the USMNT itself weren't part of the USSDA -- look for the USSF to 'clean house' very shortly.  And you can look to the recent successes of some of the YNTs for a more accurate picture of the success of the USSDA.

Regarding the recent failures of the USWNT ... It's just that the rest of the world's little girls are starting to play the game.  Traditional world powers France, Germany, and England are bound to catch up, and this realistically has little to do with the ECNL has done, nor how the USSDA will do in developing our our kids".


If this doesn't help with your lack of understanding jack, I just can't help ya --
Good little read there E. It is just damage control but it is a good read. But like I said I have not ill will toward DA.

KeeperCommander
TxSoccer Addict
TxSoccer Addict

Posts : 1649
Points : 3578
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Sidelines watching practice

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by OLJW on 11/10/17, 03:19 pm

The problem with the old system was it didn't elimate outliers that managed to succeed through competition. The new system solved that by restricting who gets to compete. Great system, the Chinese have been using it to select leaders for decades.

__________________________________________________
Buzzards gotta eat....same as worms.
avatar
OLJW
TxSoccer Postmaster
TxSoccer Postmaster

Posts : 163
Points : 1324
Join date : 2015-11-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by Big Ern on 11/10/17, 03:30 pm

OLJW wrote:The problem with the old system was it didn't elimate outliers that managed to succeed through competition. The new system solved that by restricting who gets to compete. Great system, the Chinese have been using it to select leaders for decades.

Just as clever as it is adorable OLJW --

The thing is though ... Any of these kids (including your own) are welcome to tryout for any the teams playing in the new system you've so cunningly referred to, and therefore, can indeed still succeed through competition  Wink

Big Ern
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 983
Points : 2583
Join date : 2014-09-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by KeeperCommander on 11/10/17, 03:41 pm

BigErn wrote:
OLJW wrote:The problem with the old system was it didn't elimate outliers that managed to succeed through competition. The new system solved that by restricting who gets to compete. Great system, the Chinese have been using it to select leaders for decades.

Just as clever as it is adorable OLJW --

The thing is though ... Any of these kids (including your own) are welcome to tryout for any the teams playing in the new system you've so cunningly referred to, and therefore, can indeed still succeed through competition  Wink
Hey does anyone know if International Cup will have DA brackets? Or will they play with the real talent?

KeeperCommander
TxSoccer Addict
TxSoccer Addict

Posts : 1649
Points : 3578
Join date : 2013-09-30
Location : Sidelines watching practice

Back to top Go down

Re: Safe to say IMO the old format is missed....

Post by SickofStupidity on 11/10/17, 03:53 pm

BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
BigErn wrote:
JonSneauxTargaryen wrote:
HomeStretch wrote:
BigErn wrote:
State Cup and PLD at U14+ have been watered down since the inception of ECNL almost a decade ago.  A major reason ECNL (and now USSDA) was created and has been so successful is because it provides competition/showcase opportunities for top talent on regional/national levels rather than just on a state level.  

Vegas Cup has in the same boat at State Cup since ECNL, and Surf Cup is fine given that it has had ECNL (and now USSDA) divisions.

This is not true. When ECNL started it was a much smaller league than what it became after years of expansion. It did not immediately consolidate all or even most of the top talent. DTexans were not members of ECNL at its inception.

ALL the high quality ECNL teams at its inception also played USYS events and still competed nationally in the USYS structure. ECNL was created because club owners and DOCs wanted more control over travel soccer than the admins at USYS wanted to give them. It had nothing to do with any lack of competition or showcase opportunities for top talent. It was successful because ECNL and US Club Soccer were superior marketers and business owners compared to USYS admins.  

Surf Cup and other major national tourneys only recently started separating out divisions based on league affiliation. This is also a marketing decision - since most these tournaments are hosted by us club soccer member orgs. Up until very recently, surf cup STILL took the "best of the best" and let them compete against each other in a very well respected application process. This was still the case long after the inception of ECNL.

The only evidence IMO the "new" multi-league formats are better than the old system is access to college coaches is more dispersed. Before, you needed to be good enough to make a good to great team if you wanted to be seen, because only good teams were going to make top levels of showcases and regional/national tournaments. This meant talent would concentrate into only a handful of teams in each market. This also meant more pressure on those teams to win.

Now, parents are given the illusion they can buy exposure by joining any # of leagues with guaranteed exposure. Great players on bad teams can theoretically be identified without having to change to a better team. It's an illusion because coaches are still looking at individual talent and "Great" in the parent eye is often a different assessment in the coach eye, and the new system allows far more parents to leave on the rose colored glasses far longer than they otherwise would've in yesteryear. The new formats are what diluted the natural consolidation that was occurring in the old system, and IMO have also led to greater and greater reliance on early recruiting as college coaches start laying eyeballs on 7th and 8th graders.

DA is a "closed" system, as is ECNL, and unless it addresses costs and travel, it's not likely in the long run to produce any substantially better product than ECNL....IMO


Thats my theory...

In NTX...a year ago ECNL was the exclusive league that was in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Fast forward to now...DA is the exclusive league that is in place for the top talent to get the top training from the top coaches....

Those coaches that coached ECNL last year are DA coaches now....is there something different that they are teaching this year vs last year? if so....why were they holding back?

Other than the mandated USSF curriculum & training standards, game film study, weekly regeneration training, daily individual player physical & mental monitoring, and additional training days ... nothing much different from last year.

What makes GA, as a coach, ECNL worthy now? I know he didn't enroll in any additional courses or clinics this summer. So he is basically training in the same format he has always been.

Not sure anyone can answer this one other than saying GA didn't have the USSF B to coach a DA squad, those DTS parents & kids wanted to participate in ECNL, and HN didn't want to lose all of that talent?

Same for LW....
and CP....what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year since they are DA athletes now?

Both have USSF B ... see above for your answer to, "what is he teaching those girls that he had last year in JDL different this year".


Damn....didnt know they had that.
Is that an FCD thing or DA thing?

As far as I know it's a DA thing JST --


Probably shouldn't be assuming things BigE

knowing multiple Texan DA parents

similar response that JST had from every one I have spoken to...
"Same level of play in the game but as far as the training....its just more of it....so far"

mandated USSF curriculum & training standards - no real difference they can tell
game film study - by coaches?  because not by players
weekly regeneration training - nope
"daily" individual player physical & mental monitoring - what??  now that is funny (what is daily mental monitoring?  does FCD have a shrink on staff?)
additional training days - even some non-ECNL teams last year (and this year) already had 3 days/week


And that parents of kids in DA this year 'bought exposure'.  how have the USSDA not addressed costs in your mind?  The vast majority of Boy's programs are free as are a growing number of Girl's programs.  Those that aren't are substantially discounted and provide kits.

Nope - Texans costs were only slightly discounted

again BigE - YOUR experience does not represent everyone else's

SickofStupidity
TxSoccer Author
TxSoccer Author

Posts : 884
Points : 2566
Join date : 2014-06-30

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum