LH QT Seeding

In an effort to understand why LH created this rule, what if the following VERY PLAUSIBLE scenario had occurred?

Infinity beats FCD Blue 3-1 and beats Meja Williams 2-0, making their total 18 points and winning the bracket. AFC Red would've been finished 2nd with 17 points.

Do you still believe LP Keegan should advance over AFC Red purely on points when they (the #2 seed) played and lost to the #1 seed?

Did LH create this rule to account for the seeding issues with the cross-over bracket?

Funny how the chants are "we got robbed" and "I'd be pissed if I was them". What would you all be saying if situation was reverse, where LP was in the 3 team bracket and was benefiting from the rule while Infinity got the shaft. Would you LP parents stick to what you're whining about right now and say you didn't deserve it...................that Infinity should have advanced? Or would you be gloating that the rule "is what it is" and tell them "sorry about your bad luck"? I very, very, very seriously doubt you would be that gracious.

Next time, read the freaking rules, pay attention to what they say, and be prepared for the possible outcomes. Popular to what you think happens in life.......IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO.

Tiki-taka wrote:

DDsdadforsoccer wrote:A- Texas Redstar
B- AFC Red
C- Aztecs
D- Sting Fort Worth
E- Kicks Blue
F- Frisco Fusion
G- Strikers

Wildcard- Andro Blue

Congrats to DDsdadforsoccer, he had the best/closest prediction of the results for round 1

Thanks Tiki, I got lucky. (Unlike Liverpool, sorry is this too soon)

If I had read the rules I would have picked Infinity as the wild card and not Andro. (Sorry Andro) Some crazy rule seems to have the board ticked.

INFINITY FC 01 GIRLS  3 2 0 1 3 2 16,
LP Keegan FC 01 GIRLS 3 2 0 1 7 2 20

Frankly, dont care if Keegan made it or NOT...to round 2,

But

if I was a team looking at playing LH next year and I was playing in touranment that had two sets of rules for determining outcomes based on number of teams in a bracket I would think twice, what a load of malarky, illogical scoring methodologies.

What is the purpose then of playing a cross over game period if it is not used in determining the outcome?  Oh we use it to determine bracket winners but use a different averaging formula for non bracket wild card winners? It will always favor
teams with fewer games played by that logic.

It might have made more sense if they actual stuck with the seeding rules A&B in cobination with their averageing formula which would have put Keegan in the 3 team bracket but they didn't. they number the seeding different method this time.

Yea, me you complete me,  I see it now, how foolish of me, 2 games averaged vs 3 for Keegan,
Kegan 7 goals, 2 perfect games, and 2 points against, vs. Infinity  3 goals and 2 against in 2 games

How does that math work in public school again, oh yea, when nobody is smart, lets toss out the lowest grade so we can get a nice curve for mediocore performances, then everyone looks smart

Yep give me that old time LH relgion.

yea and um save your breath me about the rules, if Infinity had more points no issue, never had an issue with that ever.

the formula is flawed makes zero sense unless medocrity is your goal...there is no way you can justify the numbers by placing Infinity in round 2

So, the cross-over game had nothing to do with the QT, treated as just a friendly, very interesting!
  

My choices for second week
Bracket A
1: TEXAS REDSTAR 01G (TXN)
5: KICKS SC DALLAS KICKS BLUE SC 01 (TXN)

Bracket B
3: AZTECS FC LADY AZTECS FC 01 (TXN)
7: NTX STRIKERS 01 BLUE (TXN)

me?obsessed? wrote:Funny how the chants are "we got robbed" and "I'd be pissed if I was them".  What would you all be saying if situation was reverse, where LP was in the 3 team bracket and was benefiting from the rule while Infinity got the shaft.  Would you LP parents stick to what you're whining about right now and say you didn't deserve it...................that Infinity should have advanced?  Or would you be gloating that the rule "is what it is" and tell them "sorry about your bad luck"?  I very, very, very seriously doubt you would be that gracious.  

Next time, read the freaking rules, pay attention to what they say, and be prepared for the possible outcomes.  Popular to what you think happens in life.......IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU TOO.

I don't think I know one DD playing in the 01 qualifying tournament so I have no dog in this fight. This is the stupidest bracketing logic I have ever seen. The main reason you utilize this "% of pool" concept is when you are trying to compare teams in 3 team brackets(THAT PLAY ONLY 2 GAMES) vs a team in a 4 team bracket that plays 3 games. The logic is wrong when some teams are in a 3 team bracket others in a 4 team bracket, but all play 3 games. You essentially guaranteed the wildcard would come from bracket A or B utilizing this logic. LHGC just doesn't understand bracketing logic.

NTX Strikers Rule! the rest will drool. Peace out!

pitchdad wrote:In an effort to understand why LH created this rule, what if the following VERY PLAUSIBLE scenario had occurred?

Infinity beats FCD Blue 3-1 and beats Meja Williams 2-0, making their total 18 points and winning the bracket.  AFC Red would've been finished 2nd with 17 points.  

Do you still believe LP Keegan should advance over AFC Red purely on points when they (the #2 seed) played and lost to the #1 seed?

Did LH create this rule to account for the seeding issues with the cross-over bracket?

If you are going to do crossovers, the 1 seed from A bracket plays the 3 team from B Bracket.  2 plays 2 and 3 plays 1.  If you do this, then you don't have to worry about the issue you just brought up.  The way LH did this was just dumb.

APato wrote:Yea, me you complete me,  I see it now, how foolish of me, 2 games averaged vs 3 for Keegan,
Kegan 7 goals, 2 perfect games, and 2 points against, vs. Infinity  3 goals and 2 against in 2 games

How does that math work in public school again, oh yea, when nobody is smart, lets toss out the lowest grade so we can get a nice curve for mediocore performances, then everyone looks smart

Yep give me that old time LH relgion.

yea and um save your breath me about the rules,  if Infinity had more points no issue, never had an issue with that ever.

the formula is flawed makes zero sense unless medocrity is your goal...there is no way you can justify the numbers by placing Infinity in round 2

Ummmmmmmmmmm.............I never SAID that the system was correct, that it was legit, accurate, justified, etc. Personally, I think it's wrong and there's better ways to have handle a 3 team bracket. But no one asked and I never offered my opinion on that one.

But let me help you look past the end of your nose since you have so much trouble finding it on your own. The point I'm making, and you are all obviously missing, is that it was published BEFORE the games were played and SOMEONE WAS ALWAYS GOING TO GET SCREWED the way it was set-up. It could have been Strikers, Infinity, Andro Blue, Kicks, or hell.........could even have been every referee's favorite team Meja. Unfortunately, it was LP. And boo hoo for them. They get to play the role of the victim, but trust me, that's nothing new for that crew (and they love doing it).

So stop the damn crying about a flawed system when you should have known it was flawed to begin with. Where what all this complaining about this possible outcomes before QT when the formats were released? Guess I missed that thread (and I've been bored and on here a lot lately if you haven't noticed). If you all cared that much, then you should have been just as upset then as now.

Am I clear 9876 & APato? Or do you want to throw another overly used and abused Jerry Maguire quote at me again?

APato wrote:NTX Strikers Rule! the rest will drool. Peace out!

Jinx!

OK, I see what is really wrong.  Since they are counting the tie breaker as who has the highest percentage of bracket points and some teams have 3 teams and some 4 - but the teams in the 3 team bracket get to play a game against an opponent whose points don't count in their bracket.

For bracket B, the total points should not just be what AFC, Inf, and Meja scored, but also what their opponents scored from bracket A.  Redstar beat AFC and FCD scored a goal against Inf, so that should be 10 points added to bracket B's total - to make it fair.  

This would make Infinity 16/51 and LP 20/59 or inf 31% and LP 33%.  The way it was done really doesn't make sense as it gives free points to the 3 team division team.

Doing it the way they did it, there was an inherint advantage being the 2 seed in a 3 team division, and this advantage went to the lower 2nd seeds which is even more confusing.

Silver lining, LP will get to play Infinity twice in PPL this year and should be able to settle it.

Blank77 wrote:OK, I see what is really wrong.  Since they are counting the tie breaker as who has the highest percentage of bracket points and some teams have 3 teams and some 4 - but the teams in the 3 team bracket get to play a game against an opponent whose points don't count in their bracket.

For bracket B, the total points should not just be what AFC, Inf, and Meja scored, but also what their opponents scored from bracket A.  Redstar beat AFC and FCD scored a goal against Inf, so that should be 10 points added to bracket B's total - to make it fair.  

This would make Infinity 16/51 and LP 20/59 or inf 31% and LP 33%.  The way it was done really doesn't make sense as it gives free points to the 3 team division team.

Doing it the way they did it, there was an inherint advantage being the 2 seed in a 3 team division, and this advantage went to the lower 2nd seeds which is even more confusing.

Silver lining, LP will get to play Infinity twice in PPL this year and should be able to settle it.

100% correct. The methodology employed was inherently unfair and ill conceived. There are three ways to make the comparison fair:

(1) just go by points because each team played 3 games. [LP has more points and gets in.]

(2) count the points by ALL teams playing crossover games in the numerator and denominator of the bracket B teams, not just the points earned by the bracket B teams. [LP gets in as noted above by Blank.]

(3) completely ignore the crossover games and all points from them. In my experience, this is the standard way to handle 3 team brackets. In this case, the AFC loss, Meja win and Infinity win are disregarded entirely. [LP gets in by a hair as Infinity has 8/25 or 32% to LP's 34%.]

Anyhow, it is what it is. Not getting into D3 could make for a more enjoyable season in the long run.

Blank77 wrote:OK, I see what is really wrong.  Since they are counting the tie breaker as who has the highest percentage of bracket points and some teams have 3 teams and some 4 - but the teams in the 3 team bracket get to play a game against an opponent whose points don't count in their bracket.

For bracket B, the total points should not just be what AFC, Inf, and Meja scored, but also what their opponents scored from bracket A.  Redstar beat AFC and FCD scored a goal against Inf, so that should be 10 points added to bracket B's total - to make it fair.  

This would make Infinity 16/51 and LP 20/59 or inf 31% and LP 33%.  The way it was done really doesn't make sense as it gives free points to the 3 team division team.

Doing it the way they did it, there was an inherint advantage being the 2 seed in a 3 team division, and this advantage went to the lower 2nd seeds which is even more confusing.

Silver lining, LP will get to play Infinity twice in PPL this year and should be able to settle it.

Blank I think your real close with a way to do it. However, if they are going to add the fourth team it should be the game that they played. So For Infinity’s total you take total points from their group. 41 and add the points from their cross over team in their game against FCD Blue which was not included in the 41. This would be 1. So it becomes 16/42 38% they still get in on the percent method. All of this is weird math. You can make the numbers do whatever you want to try to make it work. However, at the end of the day their rule was written and flawed because of an unexpected seeding result and bracket B having more comp. then expected and bracket G being less comp. (Maybe because of the cross over 1 playing 2. Maybe 1 should have played 3 and the game you were in should count towards your total points to give every team a four team total to pull from. Need to have some sort of common denominator to make it a little more fair. This is Florida all over again darn dimpled chad.

The funny thing is because two teams won 3-nil and got max points it hurt the driver of the number. Vs if the Ntx Strike beat the others 1 nil. Check this math out. NTX 24(1-0,1-0,1-0) LP 20(3-0,3-0,0-1) (Mut 8(1-0,0-1,0-3) 20/52=38.4% and a tweak on the scoring in B adding their match with FCD 16/42 38.04%. LP is in unless we go to PK's because LH rounds down.
I know a lot of numbers to digest, Lake Highlands if you need some statics help with the formula for next year and presentation of potential high risk games that could create board up roar due to the wild card system and to work on risk mitigation I am available to help you out at a low low fee.

Does anyone know when Round 2 schedule will be out??

I think several of the people listed in this news story where involved with the LH wildcard seeding.  

Teams can get Round 2 schedules in got soccer now but LH has not posted a link yet.

KeeperSweeper wrote:Teams can get Round 2 schedules in got soccer now but LH has not posted a link yet.

If that sticks, I think the bracket is odd - someone must favor Infinity.

Bracket 1: A, D, E, G
Bracket 2: B, C, F, WC

Normal serpentine seeding does not have that setup. Best points or percentage does not make that setup (strikers/redstar together). Having teams not play twice does not work either (aces red/infinity together).

Maybe that is not official. If it is, can someone explain?

http://events.gotsport.com/events/resultsgrid.aspx?EventID=33941&GroupID=304899

zerocool wrote:

KeeperSweeper wrote:Teams can get Round 2 schedules in got soccer now but LH has not posted a link yet.

If that sticks, I think the bracket is odd - someone must favor Infinity.  

Bracket 1:  A, D, E, G
Bracket 2:  B, C, F, WC

Normal snake seeding does not have that setup.  Best points or avg does not make that setup (strikers/redstar together).  Having teams not play twice does not work either (aces red/infinity together).

Maybe that is not official.  If it is, can someone explain?

Haven't looked at the brackets, but normally that would be done to avoid a rematch from week 1.

Didn't avoid rematch, created it.

Then you got me. I'm sure someone will bring it to their attention and either get it changed or get an explanation why.

Official:

Bracket A
KICKS SC
NTX STRIKERS 01
STING FT. WORTH '01
REDSTAR

Bracket B
AFC 01 RED
AZTECS FC LADY FRISCO FUSION INFINITY FC 01 GIRLS

Who got better Draw? Redstar or AFC?

Eagle1 wrote:Official:

Bracket A
KICKS SC
NTX STRIKERS 01
STING FT. WORTH '01
REDSTAR  

Bracket B
AFC 01 RED
AZTECS FC LADY FRISCO FUSION INFINITY FC 01 GIRLS

In my mind, Redstar-Strikers-KicksBlue were the top 3 coming out of last weekend. This means one of those teams will be left out.

Ouch

LHGCL logic? It MIGHT be the order in which the 5 teams having to requalify finished in D3 for 2012-2013:

6 - Texas Redstar
7 - AFC Red
8 - Lady Aztecs
9 - Sting West OKeefe
10- Kicks Blue

If you follow the theory, Bracket A has 6, 9, and 10 while Bracket B has 7 and 8.

Frisco Fusion finished 1st in PPL D1
NTX Strikers finished 2nd in PPL D1
Infinity finished 7th in PPL D1

So they took the top PPL team (Fusion) and bottom (Infinity) for Bracket B and put the middle PPL team (NTX Strikers) in Bracket A.

Bracket A is brutal!